Reflect upon the description and treatment of African Americans in chapters 7-11. Consider the interactions among the characters, the way Big Nurse treats them, the historical context of the novel, and anything else that might provide insight. Then answer the following question:
Was Ken Kesey racist?
Respond by Monday 12:00AM
43 comments:
Woot, First
I believe that Kensey is racist, although probably only to a small degree. Chief always includes the fact that the aides are black, and Kensey did grow up during a time when racism was common among people. The book shows little signs of racism other then that main fact, so I believe Kensey may be racist, but probably only to a small degree.
I agree with what Ian said. He is slightly racist but it's only because of the society that he lives in. It's shown throughout the book by having the black orderlies do menial tasks. McMurphy also exhibits some signs of racism but it's not unusual for that time period.
I feel that yes, Kesey is racist, but at that time it wasn't that big of a deal, unlike nowadays. The 'black boys' are the aids around the hospital, cleaning windows and issuing out laundry. As important as those are to maintain a running house, the biggest job is still left up to Big Nurse, who uh, isn't black (hope that doesn't offend anyone).
Even though Kesey is a bit racist, I feel like that's one of the reasons why this novel is so interesting to read. It builds its character through his racism.
I agree with the previous posters. Kesey is deemed racist by today's standards, but it would be considered only minor in the era he lived most his life in. Perhaps he succumbed to the seemingly racist remarks simply to satisfy the majority of his readers. I believe Zavitz said he grew up for the most part in Oregon? Oregon has a STRONG history of racial tension and violence (source: http://oregonmag.com/OregonRacismTrib.htm).
The environment we grow up in has a strong effect on our behavior, and I believe Kesey simply didn't know better.
I think Kesey was racist, but like everyone else before me has said, it wasn't as much of a big deal in his time. It's kind of like how now being biased towards a certain religion is taboo and you always need to be politically correct about religion, whereas in previous years it didn't matter much. The racism is expressed through the racial terms Kesey includes in the book, like "tarbabies" for example; as well as the interaction between Big Nurse and the orderlies. I don't think Kesey meant to be blatantly racist when writing the book - it was just the context of the times.
I also believe that Ken Kesey was racist. Although the only form of racism in the book is the acknowledgment of the orderlies, it seems to be a big deal because it is constantly repeated. However, Kesey’s written actions were more acceptable in that time period.
A good writer can be God for one second and create a person in his/her book with a present,past and future. That person will have a history, a personality, certain looks, and certain hopes that no one else in the world may have. With that in mind, I think it's like maaad important to remember that it's not Ken Kensey who's narrating the story but Chief Bromdem an insane and insanely tall Native American WITH HIS OWN OPINIONS and character traits. Yeaaah it's true that sometimes fictional characters reflect the writers, but notice that I included the word sometimes in the sentence? I can very well write a short story in which the narrator is a homosexual man and it won't have anything to do with my personal sexual preferences. So to not drag this out any further I think that it would be alleging to accuse Ken Kensey of being a racist because I don't know him personally. The only person I can honestly accuse of racism is the insane Chief Bromdem who like you guys said lived "in the fictional 60's" where racism was very common. PEACE AND LOVE!
The way I look at it, Kesey was slightly racist. But because Kesey lived in Oregon in a time when racism was a fairly common thing, I think that he was no more racist than the next guy/girl on the street at that time. So by today's standards, he was fairly racist.
When I think about the time period Kesey's book was set in, I think that inferiority towards blacks was an automatic mindset for many. Although Kesey wrote the characters to look down upon blacks, I don't think that he himself is a racist. He had to look back and put his characters in the shoes of people in the 60's. Racist comments in the book were just how people thought back then. Kesey isn't necessarily agreeing with them, he's just trying to set the mood for a novel set in the past.
Besides, wasn't Kesey a big LSD addict? I think he concentrated more on Chief's hallucinations than his suggestive comments.
he's just a product of his times. anyway there was that one black orderlie, the guy who works at night who seems to be pretty nice to Chief. Plus he explains that that one black guy saw his mother killed and raped, which is why he's so crabby.
But no, I don't think he's any more racist than anyone from his background would be expected to be.
I don't believe Kesey was intentionally racist. Instead, he was shaped by the society in which he was raised. Like Ian says, it's emphasized throughout that the orderlies are black, but in that time, wasn't that true of society? There definitely wouldn't have been a black person in charge because in that era, only whites could hold such leadership positions and be accepted by society. So then, where does that leave black populace? Unfortunately, they're left to do the work of the white leader. This is reflected in the novel in the fact that the aides are black. I don't believe Ken Kesey himself is racist because he does show some positives toward blacks in his writing (take for example the aide that loosens Chief Bromden's sheets). And like Alex said, his growing up in pre-1960s Oregon has a huge impact on his writing, but I don't think he chose to be racist.
Pedro's comment is meaningful. Read it.
Kesey, through Chief Bromden, does indeed make comments about the orderlies' skin color and origins, but he does not truly attempt to portray any race as superior to others.
Yeah Peeedro has a good point, none of us knew Kesey.
I don't believe that Vincent could have expressed my own opinion anybetter....... Though, to add on, I find it odd how the black orderlies have power over the people living the mental ward whom are all white, which gives me the view that Kensey wasn't indeed a reacist, but possibly was merely hinting at a growing equality between whites and blacks, using the vernacular language and culture of the time.
----yet on the other hand, it could just be refering to a hierarchy within the mental ward's power. To me, it seems that with the exception of the patients, the whiter that one becomes, the more power over other people that the doctor/nurser's/orderlies have. The black orderlies are obviously at the bottom, whom are the least white(they have black skin) and the big nurse described as looking like a china doll(china dolls have bleach white skin) is at the top of the hierarchy.
Also, I would like to add that while reading, I have yet to notice any racism towards blacks. I have on the other hand, Have noticed racism towards native Americans and towards whites. Though I don't beieve that Kenesy was racist to either, I believe he just made the character's a touch racist her and their to make them more three dimensional and interesting.
I think that Ken Kesey is slightly racist. Although he doesn't show any obvious signs of racism, there are some parts in the book that show signs of racism. For example, it seems like it's always the Big Nurse's black assistants that do all of the "dirty work". However, Ken Kesey grew up in a time when racism was common so during that time period it wasn't all that unusual.
Most authors write novels for the purpose of entertaining others. Its possible that Kensey might only be including racial comments in the novel in order to make the novel more interesting to his readers since in his time period racism was common. In my opinion, he might be slightly racist but there is almost no way to be certain since I did not know him personally.
I believe that everyone is slightly racist in one way or another. However, in the time the book was written, it was common to view African Americans in the same manner a Kesey did. To sum it all up, I do belive Ken Kesy was racist to a degree, but it was probably a result of life back during his childhood.
I agree with Illiterate Bookworm. Pedro makes an excellent point. And you should go read it if you haven't.
I don't think the nurse being very white and the orderlies being very dark has much to do with racism. It's just how life was back then. You wouldn't expect the nurse to be black and the orderlies to be white. And also, the color of the skin is described by Chief so we can't be sure of its accuracy.
I think the references to race throughout the chapters we've read so far reflect the nature of society during the time period Kesey wrote the novel. However, I wouldn't necessarily classify Kesey as being racist himself. Maybe Kesey used Chief to show peoples' attitudes in the society he lived in. Whether Kesey agreed with Chief's seemingly inferior view of blacks I can't really say, for like Pedro said, we don't know Kesey personally.
He grew up in an enviornment where mild racism is acceptable. So of course that will have an affect on him. But I disagree with what Pedro said. Why would Kesey defy the generally racist community during his time period, but still sound racist to influence his character? It's unlikely, but I guess possible.
I think that Kensey's use of racial comments throughout the novel are due to the time period in which it was written. In the time it was written it was common to make racial comments and racisim was also comnmon. Therefore, I don't know if Kensey was truly a racist, his use of racial comments could have been due to the time period in which it was written, but like others have said I don't know if he is a racist because I have never met him personally.
I think that Kensey was just a victim of his time period. Back then some of the racist actions were considered normal. I think it would be more just to say that in the novel he discriminated against African Americans, but do not accuse him of actually being a RACIST. If he had a chance to rewrite the novel who knows if he would do it differently. So bottom line do not accuse somebody of being Racist until you have solid evidence that they actually are
Although the way Kensey portrays the blacls in this book would lead many people to assume that he is racist I do not believe he was. As everyone else has says I think he was a product of his time and simply writes about what he is familiar with. In the 60s when this book was written, blacks were not giving meaningful positions and did not hold powerful positions in society. I do not believe Kensey's use of the black boys as the maids in the novel is intentionally meant to be degrading or racist but is merely what he was exposed to and familiar with in his time period
As most people have said before me Ken Kesey was not a racist. Alex said it perfectly it was just socially accepted at the time and even then Kesey was barely a racist. The only form of a racism i see in the book is the many tasks the black workers have to do, but even then thats not a big sing saying "Look I am a racist!"
Many people are saying that Kesey is slightly racist or completely racist but in all honestly i agree with Pedro. There is no possible way that we can actually know whether or not Kesey is racist without meeting the man himself. Cuckoo's nest and all its characters are fiction and the racist thoughts expressed in the book may be just that, fiction. It would certainly make sense that the characters were a bit racist knowing that these characters were supposed to represent people of that time period so people could relate to the book. Just as people during the time period were a bit racist so were the characters. Often times the characters and their view points reflect that of the author but this is not always true. That is why we cannot truly be sure. In addition, there is nothing in this book that seems to be truly hateful towards blacks-yes chief doesnt like some of the orderlies and uses some of the common words of the time for them but he doesnt express a hate for all blacks by any means; he specifically mentions really liking one. So in conclusion, there is no possible way we can truly deem Kensey a racist
I also think Ken Kasey was not racist because he most likely only mentioned the skin color and the little signs of racism because that was expected back then. The time period the book is set in is a time that society considered blacks as inferior to whites. I think he was not being racist by saying these things he was just making the book more realistic for the time period.
I beleive that Kesey did have tendancies during his writing that would point to him being a racist, however, during his time period racism was accepted unlike today so these racist bits could just be a product of his surroundings and he could feel undeferential to african american's but include these bits to appeal to the reader of the day.
No I dont believe Ken Keasy was racist or at least I dont know if he was. I think some of the characters in his novel were racist, but he may have written that way for a certain reason, most likely because it was popular during that time period. As for Keasey, nobody can really tell if he was racist.
I don't think that he was a racist. Kensey often mentions the race of the workers at the hospital. But in that time period, racism wasn't considered as bad as it is now. So I believe that Kensey wasn't a racist.He was just slightly affected by the society he was living in.
wow theres not much to say without just repeating someone else. But I think that there is probably a very strong chance that Kensey was racist, because of the time and place he was living. However I don't think that enough information is displayed in the book to make that decision.
The word 'rascist' has been used to loosely lately that it's begun to lose its meaning. At least thus far, Kesey does not show himself to be overtly rascist. The black boys are all in positions of power and relative prestige, as opposed to the white patients who are subject to their rules and authority. Including the black boys adds some color (no pun) to the novel, and an artist's use creative liscense is not reason to label him as racsist, especially when he is not alive to defend himself.
I agree with those who say that kesey is racist based on the times he grew up in. It can easily be seen that he does refer to the black boys in a different manner than the rest of the characters. There is even a different attitude toward chief because of his race.
i agree with the comments on the fact that he was a typical man of his time. today i do beleive he would be considered racist, but for the setting of this novel,i dont think he was particularly racist.....
yes, i think he is racist because he is showing all the signs of being racist towards the black orderlies. but then again, he could only be racist because of the time period that he lived in. or he could just be not racist and be talking about the black orderlies like that because the editors and people who read it would get offended if it didn't insult blakc people
Is Ken Kesey racist? in my opinion, the answer is yes. He often puts down the black aides, and accuses them of sexual acts. He makes them seem selfish, wanting things for themselves, as exemplified when they steal the chiefs food. This racism may be caused by the time period that he lived it, but i believe that it was his personal experiences that led him to write the way he did
I dont believe Kensey is racist. I think it's just a product of his time, and his racial statements are just due to facts of the story and don't actually affect anything. His main character is half Indian and the orderlies are black, but he does not make any prejudicial statements towards the.
Let's not be so typical of our generation and automatically blame it on a discriminatory issue. The book has clearly shown that blacks have the power over whites as far as the authoritarian hierarchy at the institution. In other words, there are only white patients and many black employees to whom the patients must obey. This is Kensey's prediction of future equality of all races in the States.
ha this is kinda late and i hope i can get credit for it, but i think ken kesey was just a little bit racist. i dont think he was like a huge racist, but he as just slightly prejudiced.
I don't believe that Ken Kesey was racist. When he wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, he was using jargin that was accepted during that time era. However, most people take his writing as racist because that type of jargin is typically not excepted in our society.
Was Ken Kesey a racist? I believe that he was to a certain degree, meaning that the environment that he grew up in most likely influenced the way he wrote because of the morals and values he knew. However, the perception of the book is through Chief, who is in the mental institution; If that doesn't say something than what does. Did Kesey purposely write to seem like a racist even if he wasn't so he could help create a more complex character? that my friend is the true question
As eloquently put by my previous fellow bloggers...Kensey is indeed moderately racist against black people. This can be easily noticed in his novel. However, despite being a problem nowadays...it was quite normal back then, and was sort of the manner in which literature was written back then.
To answer this question, it is important to clearly define what exactly racism is. For the moment I'll use the definition "to generalize about a certain race".
Also important to keep in mind is that the author isn't actually a character in the book! Maybe, just MAYBE, Kesey was using racism as a tool to show another side to Nurse Ratched's character. Nurse Ratched IS the one hiring these men after all. So wouldn't the Nurse be the racist one?
That being said, at the time that this book was written, it was considered common knowledge that certain differences between races existed. While it obviously isn't true, it was considered truth then. What wasn't racist then is racist now. So yes, Kesey might've been a little racist. But really...we can't tell. This isn't an autobiography, it's fiction.
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